Roaster School Online – Ep #13 – Going Dark

Roaster School Online – Ep #13 – Going Dark


Hello everybody and welcome to another
episode of Roaster School here at Mill City. I am Joe Morocco, I am
going to be your host today and I just came from right down the street at Cafe
Imports where I am the director of education and one of the senior sales
staff there. But you all know all of that already, what you don’t know is who is
sitting to my left.Hi I’m Eliza Lovett I’m the head roaster for Story Coffee Company in Colorado Springs I’m also a barista there and
I’ve been roasting and making coffee for well roasting for the past three years
and making coffee for a very long time.Many, many years.Yes, yes. I was just, you
know, instead of the go grab the beer it was like go make me a cup of coffee kind of growing up so you know um–coffee slave.Yes, exactly and then that turned into a profession when I became old enough to get money from it.Nice.Yeah.Freedom.Exactly.Freedom from slavery.It’s wonderful, so yeah and that was it back in Massachusetts and now I’m out in
Colorado and it’s wonderful and I actually I roast on a Mill City six kilo
North, it’s awesome, I love it.Sick, yeah how about yourself?I am Sydney Smith and I own revival Coffee Roasting Company in Baltimore and it’s super-new
I started it right before Christmas, and I roast on a 2 kilo– kilogram–is that a kilogram? Yep.Just making sure– coffee roaster and I’m just starting so I hope that it
kind of takes off but for now, that’s it.Nice. Yeah so today we’re going to talk about
a subject that is maybe a little bit touchy depending on the circles you run
with in the coffee roasting industry and that is dark roasting. I realized
recently that through all of the time that we have covered roasting we really
haven’t delved into dark roasting, we’ve kind of touched on it a little but dark
roasting is something that is very important for us to understand, important
for us to not be judgmental against or for um to understand that it’s a style
and that roasting coffee is not a moral quandary but instead an aesthetic and
even though this aesthetic might be a dark art, it’s something that we should
definitely understand and grasp and be able to make clear conscious choices as
to how to approach a dark roast or how to control a dark roast
and what does dark roast even mean. So the three of us sat down a little bit
ago and kind of talked about what does dark roast even mean. What does dark
roast mean to you two?Well to me it has to do with where I’m dropping the coffee in
its development inside the drum so I generally consider things dark roasted
when they have hit second crack whether they’ve made it all the way through or
not it doesn’t really matter I sort of considered second crack dark.
But in the shop I can’t say that to people so in that case it’s about flavor
profile and I might call something that’s actually more of a medium
a dark roast to someone to sell a cup of coffee because they’ll still like it
and they won’t know the difference and it’s maybe darker than your others yeah
but it’s not – that second crack so, yeah it’s it’s a context game there.
Definitely how about for you?Can say the same thing? And then I think that
it’s just when I find when people buy my coffee they kind of just want that more
I guess bold is the term they use and the more bitter flavors, more ashy,
and the darker bean that’s kinda what they look for but they don’t really
understand the dropping time periods and things like that so–Totally, yeah, there
is a very different language that we use in roasting circles then our consumer
circles would use um the key here is that a dark roast is going to be
relative so you have to figure out for your own company what that darkness is
relative to. As a roaster as pointed out that dark roast is going to be generally
relative to second crack. When does second crack occur? How long has it been since
first crack has occurred to second crack? Because if you approach from first crack
to second crack very slowly then even though you’re moving into second crack
you probably aren’t going to get very strong robust dark roast flavors, if you
move very quickly you will get very strong dark roast robust flavors and
then once the second crack has occurred how deep into second crack or through
second crack are you going to take the coffee it’s not as we’ve covered in
other episodes, it’s not a matter of you calling me and saying hey what
temperature should I drop this to make it a dark roast that is also going to be
very relative to your roaster, your drum and the deeper you get into a roast the
the higher those temperatures go on temperature probe the more relativity
there is going to be and the more change is going to occur on a coffee bean from
one degree to the next degree so if your first crack is taking place at 375 for
instance the difference between 375 and 376 is miniscule however as you get into
a dark roast that difference between 440 and 442 is very big it’s going to have a
lot of flavor change so it’s important for you as you are roasting dark and
thinking about roasting dark that you understand that it’s a delicate process
even though it’s a robust and very intense flavor experience
um so relativity figure out where your dark roast is and what it is that you
are calling a dark roast and why and then figure out when your customer is
coming to you and saying I want a dark roast what is it that they mean what is
that relative to do they think that Starbucks is light do they think that
Folgers is the flavor that they’re wanting to go for so finding some
contact so that you can pin your relative dark roast to their
expectations is really important. Another thing we talked about was how to go
about choosing a coffee for a dark roast because it may be the case that a dark
roast may be appropriate for a certain coffee, it may be inappropriate for another
and there may be a coffee that you can roast light all the way through dark so
on and so forth how do you all think about that?I have sort of general rules that I go by–I like rules, rules are good.But of course there are exceptions to every rule so that is, you know, not the way for everyone to live their lives but
I tend to say that like there are certain beans that will take more heat.
I find that things from Indonesia take heat very, very well, but I’ve had a
couple that don’t at all. I’ve had like washed versus naturals of the same
coffee that take keep very, very differently and so I tend to be more
inclined to roast the washed one darker if that’s my intent so it’s sometimes,
it’s a regional thing, sometimes it’s a processing thing, and then also for the
context of where that coffee is going to end up. So, for blends maybe one aspect
of it needs to be roasted a little heavier, if you will, than another.
How about for you?I haven’t really dabbled with different beans like to
play around with dark roast to see which one’s would take more but I have done
exactly what you said with the blends where I’ve had coffees where I do some
of the medium roast and then I’ll do some a little bit darker just to like add
in a different flavor profile to my blends, so that’s kind of what I do. I don’t really do anything specifically dark.Got it. Yeah, there
is paradox that I find for a lot of people that are trying to come up with a
dark roast; on the one side when you’re roasting dark generally you’re roasting
for the flavor profile of dark coffee, you’re not roasting to bring out a
floral note in in Ethiopia or a caramel-y note in a Guatemala, so what a lot
of people will gravitate toward is just a cheap coffee, right because we’re going
to burn it we’re going to make it taste like dark coffee so a lot of people will
gravitate toward that cheaper coffee, but were they to spring for one of those
Ethiopia’s that have a nice floral characteristic or Guat that has a nice
caramel characteristic those coffees will hold up to a darker roast. You can
roast them much more darkly and um have a much better tasting product at the end
of that. They won’t get out of control as easily, they’ll take on heat better
so that’s another thing to consider as you are thinking about dark roasting, is
not only the style and proximity the second crack that you’re getting to but
also are you wanting that dark roast to be a really high, high quality dark roast?
And I think one of the reasons that a lot of your higher-end specialty coffee
markets or companies have kind of strayed away from the dark roast is that
dark roast space is inhabited by all of the big companies that are out there and
so if you’re on the shelf with the dark roast up against all of these other
giants that people are used to tasting it’s very difficult to differentiate
differentiate yourself in that space in and to size up especially if you’re using a
high quality coffee and it costs a lot more. So there’s this balance that has to
be struck of do I want to inhabit this space and if I do what’s the price point
going to look like and then if it’s similar price point once somebody gets
it off the shelf is it going to taste better than the competition.
Is somebody going to say wow I’m really glad I made that choice when they’re
sitting down with that cup of coffee. So it’s a difficult balance for us
specialty roasters to walk. A lot of times people will choose that coffee
because it’s local, or because it’s organic, or because of something else
other than just branding so once they make that choice you want to capitalize
on a choice and be the best flavor there. So my advice is always to be to favor
quality over anything else and if you’re going to do a dark roast getting a nice
coffee, it doesn’t have to be the most expensive coffee but getting a nice hard
bean that is high grown and trying to maintain at least some of the integrity
of where that coffee came from in the flavor profile while also adding to it
the nuance of darkness or maybe smoke or tobacco or whatever it is that they’re
looking for is a really smart way to go so as it pertains to that, do you all
have any insights into when somebody is coming to asking for dark roast what is
it that they’re typically looking for?I think they’re looking for something
that’s kind of idiot-proof–okay.to use one of my favorite terms,
something that you’re not going to screw up brewing at home we all know that when
you go out to a coffee shop you expect a perfect cup of coffee because this is a
professional who’s crafted this beverage for me, when we’re home and we’re
dumping grounds into a French press in the morning we don’t want to have to
think about it that much we’re not necessarily using scales, you know, we’re
using a tablespoon and maybe a blade grinder and these are all factors
that can vary very widely day to day and with a darker coffee you’re going to
have less variance in the final cup, of course there will be variance still but
taste wise it’ll be a lot more even keel than that lightly roasted geisha and
you’re not going to put that in your French press.Yeah, I have French pressed some geishas but–We won’t talk about that.How about for you?I just think that people are kind of looking for that consistent, I don’t want to say bitter,
but that coffee that just tastes the same kind of wherever you go and dark
roast is something you can find that kind of if it’s just burn can taste the
same everywhere so I feel like that’s like a safe bet for people to go to, like
their safe zone. If they’re gonna put the money down like they want to do
something that’s kind of safe and that they’ll know they’ll kind of get the
same product or taste from from that product out of like different brands or
whatever so when they try your product they’re not getting something completely
different than what they’ve had before or things like that.Right.I also think acidity is probably a pretty big part of it, is a lot of people say oh I
don’t like acidic coffees and so that sort of circumvents that
issue a little bit.Yeah, the term I like to use is nostalgic flavor, that flavor
that harkens back to when somebody first tasted coffee and all of the coffee
experiences kind of amalgamating into one that ubiquitous coffee flavor that
people expect and anticipate and if you think about that in most of us
especially speaking from maybe a United States perspective that’s the flavor of
coffee that we know from our childhood generally, you know. That’s the flavor
like you guys said of safety and all of those things.Well, before flavor it’s
the smell.It’s like the most widely recognized
smell and all of the aromatic compounds, especially of a dark roasted
coffee, they’re gonna be really pungent on the nose, it’s gonna strike ya.
Yep.Definitely. Another really good point that Steve brought up while we were
talking about this, Steve Green the owner of Mill City, is that those darker roasts
are easier to extract if you’re using a home brewing system you’re probably not
going to have high quality water it’s probably not going to be a temperature
you’re probably going to be using very little coffee too a whole lot of water
so you’re you’re really relying upon that coffee to have a strong punch to
punch through that low level of of solvent and you’re in your extraction so
leaning into a darker roast it’s going to make a lot of sense a lot of
our really light roast coffees that may taste fantastic in a cafe honestly don’t
taste good on a Mr. Coffee um I’ve tried, you know travel around and
visit family and grind my beautiful beans and next thing I know I’m drinking
something it tastes like grass and–paper.paper and yeah it’s just not good
so thinking empathetically, too, – about how your customer is going to be extracting
the coffee that it is that you’re providing may lead you to some
conclusions that you might be roasting too light especially if you are serving
your coffee primarily as a whole bean product and selling that coffee to
people that are primarily brewing at home. I I make the argument very
strongly that you should be tasting coffee in a way that it’s similar to
your customer that should be the case regardless of who your customer is, if you’re selling your coffee in a cafe setting you should taste your
coffee on that brewer, if you’re selling it to a home brewer you should taste
your coffee through some really crappyOn a coffee drip machine.Honestly, a Mr. Coffee at
Target is like 20 bucks, yeah, it’s kind of worth it.It’s a good
investment.It’s also it is really interesting to to drink these coffees on
a Mr. Coffee.Yep, with tap water–Yeah–
and I think that you’ll find that a darker roasted coffee is going to taste
more like coffee than a lighter roasted coffeeand it’ll be more consistent,
generally.so when you all are approaching a dark roast, do you have a
particular methodology of roasting or any kind of methodologies to share?So, I just totally approach it differently than like my beautiful single origin, fruity lovely, light, floral things, so I was when I
originally was taught how to roast the guy who sort of gave me the skeleton
framework and then unleashed me on his business, he was roasting things very
very dark and I had no idea what a rate of rise even was so that wasn’t even on
my radar and there were just certain marks that I was supposed to hit at
certain times but it the big focus was on first crack to second crack and how
they interact, how like whether there is you know a good amount of time
between or not and at that point it didn’t even really occur to me to start
dropping these coffees earlier so I was playing with that a lot I mean just sort
of seeing the differences I got and finding that and now I know that it was
because my rate of rise was just dropping off that I was baking coffee a lot.yep.But people still drink it.Um…Maybe not.I don’t know, I mean I definitely realized though that
like that was happening and you know to counter that yeah so that is– now,
now that I don’t really take anything to second crack, if I were to if I were to
go home tomorrow and say I’m gonna roast this El Salvador and take it to second
crack, I would make sure not to let it lag like that. But then it would be
about like how far into second do I want to drop it and that’s a huge
question.The pending question. How about for you?I was gonna say the same thing with paying attention to the gap between first and second crack and then
for me like I agree I don’t really take anything into second crack, but I
think when I play around and do take it in the second crack I look for like the
rolling second crack and then if I wanted to hear really dark just to play
around I look for like the bean afterwards like um the oils on it but I really
don’t sell anything that dark.Yeah, special requests only.Yeah, or if I’m just like having some time to play around with the machine–Which is very important–Just see and then taste it just for giggles.It was the most fun part about seasoning our machine was killing some beans dead and just watching the whole the whole
experience.Did you experience third crack?Life and death of a–I’ve only heard third crack once, I
thought it was a myth.I think it is a myth, are you lying to us?No, I’m not lying. There
was a coffee I swear it went into a third crack. Somebody walked away from
the drum, left the coffee in the roaster and we turned around and the coffee
roaster was smoking blue smoke from every corner and sure enough it was
cracking a third time.So had they exploded a little bit?I think it was catching on fire.Yeah, I was going to say. They were just pulverized.Yeah, they were very large and very black. So I’m going to share a couple of I guess theories or methods of roasting dark with you all.
One thing that I want to touch on though that Steve reminded me of right before
this is there is a very big trend right now which I think is a positive trend in
a lot of ways to maintain a declining rate of rise. So, in other words
if your rate of rise at the turnaround comes out of turn around and hits at 20
degrees per 30 seconds, which is really fast by the way, at that point you
never want to go beyond 20 degrees per 30 seconds in fact you want to slowly
back off of that as your curve is, I guess you guys need to look at the curve
this way as your curve is coming up the temperature of your system is a set
temperature, the temperature of your air is kind of going to rise and then
plateau most likely, so as your coffee is coming to meet that set temperature it’s
going to do so in a declining fashion. In other words, the tension between the
distances of temperature is going to be less and less as they approach each
other if you think about there being an elastic band between two things that are
pulled apart that’s kind of what energy is treating the coffee and roaster with.
So your coffee’s down here, your roaster is up here, this temperature is pulling
the coffee up to meet the roaster. If you set your temperature in such a way you
really honestly don’t even have to make gas adjustments during your roast in
order to get your roast to come up go through first crack and get to the point
where it can drop and eventually your coffee will no longer gather momentum if
your roaster system is really low in energy if you start your roaster off at
200 degrees, for instance, you’ll never hit first crack, it’ll just turn maybe
yellow and hang out there. That’s what baking is technically, so
with that declining rate of rise, if you implement that kind of a theory to dark
roast you’re going to miss the mark. Because all of a sudden you’re declining
through first crack and after first crack and two minutes after first crack
how much more energy do you have left in your system? Now all of a sudden you’re
faced with I’m supposed to turn my gas up but that book that I read said that I
can’t turn my gas up. What am I doing? Now I’m doing something wrong, so then there
is one way to breach that and that’s to turn your gas up there’s another way to
breach that and that’s to approach first crack really fast so then you’re
cruising through first crack you’re cruising through post first crack and
into second crack now the sudden second crack is unfolding and remember how I
said that that distance in temperature one degree to another is so much greater
an impact in those darker roast moments now it’s out of control so how do you
fix that well the answer is don’t worry about the
declining rate of rise on a darker roast make sure that you are tasting your
coffee at different different roast levels so maybe roast that coffee
the way that it should be roasted in your mind to where your exemplifying
natural flavor and the coffee the way that you might roast it to City Plus or
or even full city and then look at that
curve and say okay I went through first crack at this rate of rise at 5 degrees
per 30 seconds I went through first crack do that again and if you’re
roasting a dart on the second try go all the way through first crack in the same
way that you would have gone through first crack but then use your burner in
a way that maintains energy and doesn’t allow your Kaka to just die don’t be
afraid to turn up your gas it’s okay the other method is try to maybe speed
first crack up a little bit knowing that your end goal is to have a darker roast
your end goal is not necessarily to capture some of what was in that lighter
roast and then add darkness to it but your goal is simply the flavor of the
dark roast so go ahead and allow it to move through first crack a little faster
but think about it from the context that I’ve just laid out so that you’re not
just simply trying to abide by a rule that may or may not have its place with
this style of roasting there’s also another method that is an old-school
method of adding roast like characteristic to a roast and this is
called the quote unquote aroma roast the aroma roast and you’ll find this on some
of the older machines especially a Probot on the it’s a big dial to dampen
the air it’ll actually say aroma roast or aroma on it or something of that
nature it’s usually in German and although aroma is still going to be
aroma and basically what you do is you close off the air so you get it to the
point where you think it it should drop turn off the burner close off the air
and then essentially smoke the coffee in its own smoke so you can roast it to a
lighter degree turn off the burner close off the air and then just pump some
roast flavor into the coffee do I recommend this
I recommend trying it as a roaster because it’s pretty cool and it is a
method that exists and I want you to be aware of it I think that you probably
could find some good results that have have some maintained origin flavor
characteristics and have some added smoke characteristics but I don’t know
that if I was to run a company we would do this method of roasting but it exists
and I wanted you to know about it any questions from you all so far any
questions from the audience so far okay Nick’s nodding his head though that we
don’t have any questions that we have not covered so far so you all good so
far all right cool we’re cruising right along um so another thing that I wanted
to talk about is where might it be appropriate for us to darker to roast
darker depends on your clientele okay if you’re going to go visit your
grandparents it’s totally worth it to roast a batch a little darker and
bring that with you yeah yeah I mean there are generational things and I
think that a lot of times we as Roasters roast well we want our customers to want
and maybe not roast what our customers actually want we may handcuff ourselves
a little bit or maybe a better term would be bottleneck the entry point into
our businesses by kind of alienating some people with our roast methodologies
so in your companies of the copies that you roast which I know you said you
don’t roast to dark but of the coffee’s that you roast the more dark roasted
ones what are those and how do you use them I the ones all right now what I
kind of have what’s darker is Peru and how do you use that like what is it just
a blend or is he oh yeah well I’ll use it like if I loose a little bit darker
I’ll put it in a blend with like Ethiopia or something they’ve done it
okay or I’ll just have it by itself and I use um like if I was brewing it like I
forgot imam make like a cold brew but it won’t it’s okay be super dark uh-huh I
think what is dark to some people is kind of like medium mm-hmm yeah yeah
yeah so if you think about a dark roast and I’ll ask you the same question in a
moment if you think about a dark roast that darker seed is going to be more
brittle okay and the products in that seed have now broken down further so
that those flavor molecules are now smaller molecules well smaller molecules
are easier for water to extract firstly secondly as you roast that coffee it
expands larger and the porosity of that coffee opens up more thirdly it’s more
brittle so when it goes through a grinder it’s going to fracture into
smaller pieces this is why a dark roast is more soluble so implementing a darker
roast for cold brew is really smart because cold water is not as efficient
at creating a solution it’s not as efficient at dissolving particles and
extracting those particles from your coffee so if you roast a little darker
you can extract it much more easily how about for you um so we created a blend
that we decided like we’re going to create this one that is for us dark and
really for specialty coffee in Colorado Springs where we’re located it is on the
dark side of things because we found your average Joe coming in
asking for a cup of joe and we always keep two things on drip and we would go
through the well we have two beautiful coffees for you today we have one
Guatemala that is on the chocolaty but Yatta Yatta scale and then one that’s
like this crazy fruity and so many people were like I just want a cup of
coffee yep so we created this blend as that cup of coffee and you know after
ten years of serving people you can sort of spot that a mile away and you just
pump that coffee for him the it’s interesting that you bring up there the
brittleness of darker roast because that um some people would argue is better for
espresso and our friend Matt Berger might argue that because you’re actually
going to get more finds potentially um that’ll give you a rounder you’ll get
more of the full round and smooth in your espresso which is really what
people are typically looking for as opposed to the like bright acidic sort
of slap in the face yeah less sharpness from an acidic side more of like the
round bitter sort of enveloping right um which you can get from that mm-hmm
or what somebody may call full-bodied or what they may call strong those terms
that we coffee professionals don’t use very often but our our consumer base has
been taught to use these terms quite a bit yes press is definitely a place
where you see a lot of dark roasts used usually in a company especially a
specialty coffee company their darkest roast is going to be an espresso blend
or an espresso roast there are a few different reasons for that one is
definitely that ability to grind it finer and have more consistency another
is espresso kind of acts like like a microscope for flavor and you’ll take a
flavor that you might have in a drip coffee for instance put it into a
Nespresso machine all of a sudden that little hint of lemon is just like you
said slapping you in the face it’s just like and thereby yeah totally
amplified um so how do you tame those really intense flavors while you roast
it a little bit darker as you are roasting as your roast curve comes up
certain flavors die and one of those is acidity acidity kind of comes down like
this and then it just crashes and burns as you get deeper into your darker roast
there are some acids technically that increase as you roast darker but those
acids are generally bad tasting acid like qui Nick acid and acetic acid
acetic acid is technically vinegar and qui Nick acid if you want to know what
that tastes like your oh what’s the name I’m trying to
think of the soda water tonic water thank you it’s like wine idea it’s quite
odd so if you take all of the positive things in in soda water are in tonic
water and take that out you’re left with this bitter horribleness and that’s
quite an acid so those flavors are growing you have these negative bitter
flavors growing you have these positive acidities dying and you have the
sweetness kind of comes up and then drops off as well so it’s an art it
truly is an art to try to find a dark roast that will maintain some of those
notes of acidity maintain some of that sweetness while also adding some of that
bitterness and robustness from a consumer standpoint and espresso really
does that if you roast it darker put it through the espresso machine that
acidity that is still there in a dark roast will still come through in the cup
pretty interesting cool have we had any questions yet messed up listening to you while pretty
comfy what technique you’re using to go darker for more let’s say palatable dark
ropes you’re trying to hit this comfort cup as a nostalgic hub is it origin as a
technique so the question is how do we approach a dark roast in a way that
maintains palatability or I would maybe change that phrasing to I’m sorry if I’m
putting words in your mouth or reading too much into this but maintaining the
characteristic that are intrinsic to that coffee while also adding that roast
like characteristic I really look at this from a perspective which I’m not a
chef but from a chef like perspective a chef has these really far-out crazy
ideas with ingredients that frankly are pretty disgusting generally um the
palate of a chef is a very strange and dark place you usually don’t want to go
and that’s typically how Roasters are with like really light roasts very
exotic flavors and we’re disconnected from the populace but a chef’s job is to
take this this hypothetical idea and put it into a context that allows somebody
that’s eating that plate to feel comfortable so how do you do that with
dark roast the first thing I kind of popped in my head would be a blend so
taking something darker than normal so you get more of those ashy Lissa’s CITIC flavor notes or whatever
and then having another blend that’s more of a medium put them together and
blend it together and then you can kind of meet halfway with those
an option I dig it uh I feel like it has everything to do with sourcing your
beans and looking for beans that will inherently have qualities that will
complement yeah the like the roasty flavor will complement that so I don’t
think that roasty necessarily complements Meyer lemon in my mind those
don’t yeah Connect but roasty like pipe tobacco and
dark chocolate totally go together so where does that leave us okay well um
just from you know roasting lots of coffee I would go like Costa Rica
Guatemala you know um maybe Indonesia if I want to
do something a little funkier yeah um yeah yeah so again we’re talking about
flavor characteristics so again putting it into a chef’s perspective this might
get a little heady I apologize but from a chef’s perspective let let’s think
about the flavor a chef can derive a flavor from multiple sources let’s say
he’s looking for she’s looking for the flavor of liquorice well you can get
that from licorice root you can get that from fennel from the fonz of fennel or
from the bulb of fennel you can get that from a nice star anis or aniseed
you can get that from the seed of fennel there are all these places that you can
derive this note that you’re looking for so from her perspective it’s take
different coffees that have the notes that you’re looking for and arrange
those in a way to where those notes are coming out and strength and in weakness
in chorus or harmony with each other and from your perspective taking one seed
that may have attributes of all of those things so a very high quality coffee and
just roasting it to one area where those are still present and there are
different ways of even doing that so for instance if you have a coffee
that you know what has attributes that are going to be tobacco like or
chocolate like if you roast that too fast or too hard you know that that’s
going to get burned out so finding that balance of speed as you’re moving into
second crack and then finding the point in second crack at which those flavors
no longer exist so if one all of this is going to be kind of a tug of war where
we’re borrowing from one coffee or borrowing from one flavor in a
particular coffee and then while we’re getting that flavor built into the seed
another flavor is diminishing and so finding that balance for each seed so
from a roaster perspective I think about light roasts in terms of like knocking
on the coffee’s door and asking who’s home and saying what do you have to
offer me what are the notes that are in you little coffee bean and how do I find
those and achieve those and find them over and over every time in roasting
whereas with a dark roast that is more me telling the coffee what to do these
are the flavors that I want that yep it’s a totally different mindset yes
these are the flavors that I want I know all of these coffees and what they have
to offer me how do I get this flavor from this coffee or these flavors from
this coffee in the same mindset are in the same package together harmoniously
that truly B is where we as Roasters shine that’s the work that’s the job of
being a roaster roasting a coffee just simply to unleash just what is there raw
you know I we can teach a child how to do that but a child is going to take a
lot more time and a lot more hours to put together a beverage that has the
flavors that they wanted to have so how do you do that well a lot of time a lot
of tasty a lot of development a lot of different
palates understanding all of the attributes that your coffee’s bring to
the table being able to comprehend those flavors and how those flavors were
achieved and then figuring out a roast set that will maximize those in the cup
to where somebody who’s not a coffee professional will be able to taste that
cup and say wow that really that’s super chocolaty and then when you achieve that
and you hear that feedback from a customer talk about being amped great
that’s pretty pretty awesome yes any other questions that was a really
long-winded answer but okay good okay Nick is saying we’ve kind of rolled
through a lot of the questions if there are lingering questions that you have on
this topic or any of the topics that we cover in roaster school please hit us up
and if there are other areas that you wish for us to cover please hit us up on
that too because content is drive by need and we want to know what your needs
are out there you all have anything to add before we wrap well thank you all so
much for being here traveling so far and hanging out with us today yeah and
hopefully we’ll see you on another episode oh wait two things cool your one
quiz oh yeah so make sure that everybody knows to hop on our Facebook follow us
on the description on YouTube where’s the quiz free certificate personalized
with your name at the same time the biggest question for either of you do you know who Joe refers to himself as
oh my gosh no oh you need a microphone probably yeah here ferdi yourself at
come on over you’re gonna be on camera oh yeah we’ve had a considerable amount
of people wondering exactly what the correct answer is to this Joe do you
remember who you are oh yeah for the mic I’ll help you who are you say wait is it
the Bob Ross Oh unfortunately not the Margaret Thatcher no wait what are your
catchphrases oh I don’t know we’ll have to recommend definitely work
on a film yep uh-huh no I was like drawing the profile and
yep so what Nick was saying a moment ago is if you have attended all of our
Roasters roaster school episodes for the first year you can jump online well
anybody can jump online and do this and try your hand at it but you can jump
online and look us up on Facebook and take a quiz and if you successfully pass
that quiz you’ll get a certificate with your name on it that says you have
completed year one of the roaster school or something of that sort
cool well that’s it for this week and we are this month and we will see you next
month so please tune back in and hit us up with questions thank you bye

11 thoughts on “Roaster School Online – Ep #13 – Going Dark”

  1. Many people ask for "dark roast" when they want something to use in a home espresso machine. A lot of times they ask for "espresso roast" and want the darkest roast…

  2. I have a blend which is predominantly robusta. Strangely, I tried it medium roasted and it came out more bitter. So I went back to dark roast. I was targeting a flavor profile which a lighter roast couldn't give.

  3. I roast for a coffee shop in wv and I take a house blend of ethiopian X sumatra 1-1.5 min into second until beans develop a nice sheen and even get some oil spotting and then i drop em. both are roasted separately to the same profile and then mixed in a cooling drum. . not my favorite but it is verrrry popular. so no matter what i think it sells and we profit off sales so we keep giving customers what they want. my basepoint coffee is a single origin ethiopian harrar roasted "Light" and i take that to right before second crack. i am aware that it is not light. but the company i work for does not like the flavor and acidity of coffees roasted just up till first crack then dropped moments later.Frankly i think if we changed the style we would lose business because the brand is based around roasting slightly darker. we only offer two blends one being an espresso and then every other coffee is single origin roasted to a med dark for the most part. i like drinking coffee black that is palatable and does not give me unwanted effects… and i agree that some cofees are roasted way light and are almost unbearable to drink black…. thats just my 2 cents

  4. Do you guys have any thoughts on total development time in a dark roast? Should the first crack to drop be the same on a dark roast or is it inevitably going to be longer?

  5. I am a roaster from Ecuador, have being doing it on and off for 11 years, I don´t understand the attitude towards coffee that has gone through second crack, and immediately assuming it has lost it´s origin taste….just not true. Please roasters don´t be so posh!!! don´t look down at the customers who enjoy different tastes inside coffee beans. We must aim to please and that should give us pleasure.

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